Dennis Hackethal’s Blog

@jchalupa_ @aniketvartak @ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

you need politicians that understand their role in reducing their own office

i don’t have all the answers; once you start with the implementation, unforeseen problems appear anyway. all i know is freedom is worth a try.

@jchalupa_ @aniketvartak @ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

hard to predict without ending up prophesying
but yes interim solutions may well be hybrid ones shared by state and free market
state should sell off as much as it can as quickly as it can, but always in a reversible fashion

@scorn_game

looks really cool

@aniketvartak @ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

yes. phase out taxes. pass legislation that slowly reduces them, and the size of government, to zero, by replacing forced services with voluntary ones.

@ToKTeacher @DorfGinger @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

correction: people think that of most positions they hold, not all. sometimes people consider an idea refuted but they have to hold on to it until they find an adequate replacement. also ppl can lie to themselves about why they hold an idea; part of them knows it's false.

@ToKTeacher @DorfGinger @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

daniel criticized the claim that taxation is theft by saying it's like claiming "the position im persuaded of is correct". but fallibly that's what everyone always thinks of any position they hold anyway. even if they grant they might be wrong they tentatively believe to be right

@ToKTeacher @DorfGinger @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

i'm claiming, fallibly, that taxation is theft, just like one might with rape and violence
giving additional examples isn't circular

@DorfGinger @IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

one could make the same 'argument' about the negation: 'taxation is not theft'
saying it is is declaring dissatisfaction with having one's earnings taken away
very useful

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

sounds to me like you're ignoring my arguments to arrive at your conclusion again

'forcibly having sex with a woman causes her trauma, prevents her from being creative and productive, etc... all good points. no need for "rape"'

just call the thing 'rape' you coward

@ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

we can speak the truth, accidentally, without ever knowing (i think we often do speak it)
lying is not only being intentionally dishonest

@DorfGinger @IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

‘Taxation is theft’ is a terrible argument because its functionally equivalent to ‘the position im persuaded of is correct’

no it isn't, at least no more than fallibly. do 'rape is violence'

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

to use a different, imo simpler example, if everyone's balance in their bank account doubled over night, ~nothing would change in terms of purchasing power
we're in agreement on that
yet we're not in agreement on the effect of taxes on purchasing power

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

the government does also spend money less effectively, no doubt
but you're not engaging with the arguments i've made. i've said more than that

@ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

nobody is speaking of utopia
i don't know what repeating boi 101s you know i know adds to the conversation
lying about political coercion prevents "striving imperfectly to meet partially understood ideals"

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

but would have been able to afford if the govt didn't force everyone to spend money in ways they wouldn't normally.
it leads to all kinds of distortions and fuckups

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

even if other goods are equally cheaper, it still means i may not be able to afford those pricier goods

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

but that's the thing, not all of society makes 15% less because of taxes. some make a lot less, some aren't affected at all
there's also what i've said about money flowing in ways it otherwise wouldn't, so some goods and services will be pricier than they otherwise would be

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

btw the wealthy pay the vast, vast majority of taxes, not just "a few percent more". that's a misleading statement because "a few percent" of a much larger amount is a lot

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

that's a misquote
regardless, how is it wrong?

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

that's not to mention that looking at whether and how much everyone else is taxed reveals you still have the collectivist bug
if you cared about individual property rights, you'd consider a single instance of theft from a single individual an injustice, no matter the amount

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

why do you keep laughing at my tweets?

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

also, due to taxes, money is flowing in ways it otherwise wouldn't (or else no coercion would be necessary in the first place), so lots of people are worse off

example: i'd like to buy product x, and i could if i weren't taxed, but i can't because i am

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

Taxation is not measurably impacting your quality of life.

Assuming this is about: twitter.com/IamtheWay13/st…

I had already refuted that here: twitter.com/dchackethal/st…

@ToKTeacher @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

i don't think betraying the victims of the state by refusing to speak the truth about what happens to them, as coulter refuses to, meets either of those criteria

it fact, it's counter to the spirit of the second one

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

have you read the article i sent

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

arguments against thieves are not ethical attacks
they're defenses

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

again, additional ethical considerations may persuade some people more than focusing on coercion alone
problems are soluble. find a way to persuade without accommodating evil. you don't need to compromise

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

i'll also add that it's generally a lot harder to gauge how people will react than one might think. you can't induce that from past experience
you seem much more concerned with what people think about the claim 'taxation is theft' than what the truth of the matter is

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

This tweet of yours implies you see some value in going beyond that: twitter.com/IamtheWay13/st…

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

~everyone is psychologically innocent, recognizing this fact doesn't really help us along
if you refuse to speak of evil as evil, you're accommodating it. don't compromise with evil:
courses.aynrand.org/works/how-does…

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

and today we realize how disgustingly wrong apologists were back then, do we not?

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

adding additional ethical considerations on top of the concept of coercion doesn't mean you're insulting or accusing

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

Taxation is coercion and that's ALL we need to establish what's wrong with it.

Plenty of pessimists cannot imagine a world without coercion, think it's necessary or even good. Adding the ethical considerations may well help convince them they're wrong.

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

Imagine someone arguing about slavery the way you argue about taxation. 'Let's just call it coercion, anything else is too ethically loaded' – bonkers

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

We don't need the ethical implications carried by words like theft and stealing. It adds nothing more qualitative to the discussion.

These are the words of a violence apologist. If taxation actually bothered you, you'd criticize it with full force.

@IamtheWay13 @ToKTeacher @MagnetThatcher @DavidDeutschOxf

But theft and stealing smuggle in clear colloquial notions of being overtly and intentionally unethical.

And coercion alone does not?

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

yes. again, we agree that we don't need the word 'theft'. what i'm not sure is whether you agree that theft – or whatever we wish to call it – is disgusting
can you please answer what the cultural baggage is

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

my position does not depend on the word 'theft'

twitter.com/dchackethal/st…

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

the position that taxation is theft isn't about words.
it's just about the fact that property shouldn't be stolen, by the government or anyone else. use whatever words you like.
what's the "cultural baggage" btw?

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

we already agree with the popperian notion that definitions aren't all that
what i mean is that if the law referred to the "illegal taking of another's money" it would be circular, and so no, to answer your question, i would not happily agree that taxation isn't theft

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

referred to by the law
codified by law
look-uppable in texts that are law

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

by "definition" you mean legal definition?

@ToKTeacher @bnielson01

Sleepwalkers' behavior is often nonsensical. Like the guy pouring milk into the sink instead of the bowl he just fetched. If he were conscious, he wouldn't do that, would he? (All else being equal, eg he's not mentally ill)

@ToKTeacher @bnielson01

How can we distinguish between that and the claim “They form no memories of their experiences while sleepwalking”?

I wondered that too. My tentative answer is:

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

it's not that it's a definition
it's that the law carries some weight here
the law is one of the institutions financed by blood money after all

@B_Vanderhaegen

yea or there's just mindless updating of parameters/information
it's not learning in the popperian sense of an evolutionary process of conjectures and refutations

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

fwiw 'taxation is theft' meets the legal definition well: law.cornell.edu/wex/theft

let me preemptively state that other intents such as 'helping the poor' do not collide with it

note also that the legal definition of 'theft' says nothing about reduction of quality of life

@IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

i haven't read the entire thread but:
not everyone is taxed the same (not that it would make things better if they were)
also you went from 'reducing wealth' to 'reducing relative wealth'

@stevegaines @IamtheWay13 @MagnetThatcher @ToKTeacher @DavidDeutschOxf

yes, it's controversial

RT @MurraySuggests:
Once one concedes that a single world government isn't necessary, then where does one logically stop at the permissibil…

RT @RonPaul:
Every excuse in the book is given for inflation. But inflation has a single source --> The Fed and the immoral fractional-rese…

Sleepwalking: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/sleepwal…

@marvin_wank

Du kannst vermutlich eine Petition starten oder klagen.

RT @Stift_und_Bogen:
"Der Mann ist in Not, dem helfe ich." Marie #Burde (* 1892 (#otd), † 1963) lebt im Wedding in bitterer Armut, verkauft…

@marvin_wank

Quelle?

RT @hubertus_knabe:
Unglaublich, @dlfkultur!

@ks445599 @mgoldingmd @ChristleNwora

For ice cream or in general?

Attenborough's specious ideas may have done more damage to the world than the rest of the BBC combined. twitter.com/Andr3jH/status…

Remind protesters that Kavanaugh helped bring the Lewinsky-Clinton affair to light, which was arguably #metoo before there was #metoo. twitter.com/LibertyLockPod…

Lovely twitter.com/monkeymonk2012…

RT @MinistryofTru16:
They are eating their own and it is glorious.

On the importance of making reversible changes. twitter.com/KyleKashuv/sta…

@paulg

Yet if you x-rayed the minds of adults, you'd find millions of unexamined copies of "Taste is subjective."

Yes, because ideas replicate inside one's mind: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/the-neo-…

RT @Cicero_PW:
Ich bin für den Genderstern.
Er ist ein geeignetes und hinreichendes Signal,
einen Text nicht weiterlesen zu müssen.

@florinpop1705

gitpretty.com (mine) if you feel like trying something different

@joergnicht

Mein alter Kiez. Super schön da

RT @RonPaul:
Every form of authoritarianism has been tried (many times over) to turn free human beings into obedient robots.

The failure…

RT @PR0GRAMMERHUM0R:
I think I go home early today reddit.com/r/programmerhu… pic.twitter.com/aXQzEARVsG

RT @jooeysiiu:
Join me at @VoCommunism’s Tiananmen Massacre Candlelight Vigil tomorrow, 8PM at the Victims of Communism Memorial.

https://…

@tomhyde_

What if the slaveholder misled them about the work being voluntary and maintains tight psychological manipulation?

RT @WomenPostingLs:
pic.twitter.com/VJW9ucwbMJ

@jchalupa_ @bnielson01 @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Fair enough but most of those are very serious not petty at all

@saulscript

First thing he does is change his name 😂

@jchalupa_ @bnielson01 @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

This one? twitter.com/jchalupa_/stat…

@jchalupa_ @bnielson01 @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

You mentioned three kinds of violence, deemed them all “different”, and called only one of them a problem: twitter.com/jchalupa_/stat…

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Lemme guess, it’s also easy to vary

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Again, I usually don’t know who is who

I know where I won’t be moving anytime soon twitter.com/AP/status/1532…

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

They can also point out they abhor violence while at the same time disliking libertarianism for unrelated reasons. Which, again, Jose could have done but chose not to. If it had mattered to him he would have.

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Clever, but no, because they can disagree with me for other reasons and make no comment on violence. In which case I just don’t know.

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

This isn’t that surprising. The vast majority of ppl love violence and can’t imagine living in a society without it. They also rush to defend institutionalized violence. So Jose is in good company.

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Libertarians don’t want institutionalized violence. Jose is defending institutionalized violence. I even pointed out to him how he’s bending over backwards to make institutionalized violence work. He still didn’t deny loving violence.

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Jose has been given plenty of opportunity to deny loving violence but he hasn't bothered to once

@bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

No that isn't how I define 'love of violence'. Ppl may disagree with me for other reasons and I don't describe them as loving violence.
I only describe people who love violence as loving violence.

RT @RubinReport:
Perfection. pic.twitter.com/p6k8RzxjSe

@jchalupa_ @bnielson01 @MatMcGann @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

Look up ‘paradox of tolerance’. There’s no need to be tolerant of those who love violence.

@MatMcGann @bnielson01 @jchalupa_ @BTC_SNEK @DoqxaScott

No, it’s def possible it will

Is it immoral to set free someone who’d prefer to remain a slave?

RT @waitbutwhy:
It's super important to support marginalized people in places where it's popular to do so pic.twitter.com/HIwNaLtkPE

One OF video and she’ll be fine twitter.com/ClayTravis/sta…

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

I investigate this more here: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/a-progra…

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

We also know some things about how to get there. The change can't come over night, it has to be piecemeal and reversible. Also, some avenues are more prudent than others – like, don't open the borders without getting rid of the welfare state first.

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

I did not claim to know how to implement libertarianism. We DO know, thanks to optimism, that it's possible – and, if done, that it will be the political implementation of Deutsch's optimism.

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

Nobody's talking about subjective knowledge.

Deutsch's optimism states that all evils are due to a lack of knowledge. For that to be true one does not need to know, specifically, how to solve each and every problem.

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

Libertarianism can, and hopefully will be, the political implementation of Deutsch's optimism – one day, when we know how. It is not currently.

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

Say you're not a programmer. You don't know how to implement addition in some programming language. That doesn't make you question that addition can be implemented, as long as you know how, does it?

@jchalupa_ @codybaldwin

I was of the opinion that we don't (yet!) know how to implement libertarianism long before this discussion started. This again shows that you understand little about my stance and are arguing against strawmen.

@codybaldwin

Asking "[w]here does inexplicit knowledge end and force begin?" doesn't make sense as those are largely orthogonal concepts. It's like asking 'where does chewing gum end and sugar begin?'

@codybaldwin

Inexplicit knowledge (per Deutsch) is knowledge not (yet) put into words.
Force (per TCS) is enacting an idea when a conflicting idea is still present in the (thus forced) mind.

@codybaldwin

it doesn't sound like you understand what inexplicit knowledge and force are