Dennis Hackethal’s Blog

My blog about philosophy, coding, and anything else that interests me.

Tweets

An archive of my tweets and retweets through . They may be formatted slightly differently than on Twitter. API access has since gotten prohibitively expensive – I don't know whether or when I'll be able to update this archive.

But in case I will, you can subscribe via RSS – without a Twitter account. Rationale

@rveulacia

no i don’t think that

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@monack @krlwlzn @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

that dependence is more of a reason not to coerce and thereby betray them, not less

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

Are you seriously asking “What if the child doesn’t want to learn social skills?”

yes

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

you’re still refusing to answer my questions, why should i answer yours?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

to be clear, there are healthy boundaries: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/boundari…

but i don’t think those are what you were talking about

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

i’m not talking about an unhinged and ill adjusted adult. i’m talking about a regular adult, and shifting the focus from child to adult was supposed to show you that it is wrong to set ‘gentle boundaries’ to control people’s behavior. same with bedtimes, eating vegetables, etc.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

I don’t need to define violence, everyone knows what it is. It may be a fact of life, but it need not be.

And that still sounds like advocating violence against children.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

not everything is communicated explicitly using words, no.
that doesn’t mean coercion is necessary or desirable.

you’re not answering my questions btw. they’re not rhetorical

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

‘But how would self-coercion surface in my husband in the absence of gentle boundaries set up by surrounding humans ?’

see the problem?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

“[Y]ou need to experience […] violence […]. Especially as a child.” You’re publicly and explicitly advocating violence against children.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

How do you teach those things without those issues to adults?

And what if the child doesn’t want to learn those things?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

The parent, and then the parent explains why throwing food is a bad idea.

What do you propose?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

in your next example, perhaps the child could be brandishing a machine gun?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

so you’re saying ‘if i can’t persuade i’ll use force’? that’s not very persuasive is it?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

i can’t imagine a child who would enjoy beer
but yes that would be the child’s prerogative, just as it is yours
freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes
if it’s such a bad idea you should have no trouble persuading the child of that

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

They’d have more time if ppl didn’t fill their day with things they don’t want to do.

Learning rules requires knowledge which can be acquired peacefully, no coercion necessary.

To be clear I do not advocate neglect or never teaching rules. I just don’t think it requires force.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

Note that emergency situations are different from things like forcing someone to eat vegetables or go to school.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

No you put out the fire and explain how that seriously could have hurt the brother.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

When you describe children as totalitarian that can easily be understood to imply that it is appropriate to use violence or other kinds of force against their alleged illusions of grandeur and their alleged violence.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

Total subjugation of the world around often seems to be the vision, if only fleeting :)

Evidence?

How is that “breaking”?

It’s thwarting their efforts until they do what you approve of.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

you say “Of course not” but then seem to argue in favor of it anyway

throwing stuff to see if and how it flies is a science experiment

much more apt to describe children as little scientists than as little totalitarians

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

But how would self-coercion surface in a child in the absence of gentle boundaries set up by surrounding humans ?

Why should such self-coercion surface?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

children are not little totalitarians who need to be broken and civilized

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@rveulacia

your argument isn’t new: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/libertar…

and for many children the outside world ends up being much kinder than the home as they grow up
strangers largely leave them alone when appropriate, which is something parents consistently fail to do

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@mentalplex @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

yes

i’m going somewhere with this
take the plunge, there’s nothing to worry about

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AgnusDeitox @SMooreesq @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

ive heard of people abandoning their love for freedom once they have children
pessimism is rampant
sad
i think none of the many responses ive gotten say anything new
it’s all rehashed
eg ‘force is necessary to produce respectful humans’
no. force teaches that might is right

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@SenorMustachio @tripencrypt @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

what about video games someone gifted to you?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Zsuzsica @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

this isn’t really about the article specifically
more about people’s willingness to abuse their own children generally
and other people’s readiness to defend such abuse publicly

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@LMACameron @basementhippo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

and i have answered that i don’t have children
i have babysat children, yes
takingchildrenseriously.com is my inspiration

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

amazing how openly some parents talk about abusing their kids
they think it’s because it’s not really abuse
but they have no problem admitting it’s force twitter.com/monack/status/…

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

RT @TCSparents:
“Did you ever have to hug or kiss a relative even when you did not want to? […] Demanding that children hug or kiss family…

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

RT @ParikPatelCFA:
Nancy Pelosi to step down as leader of the house to focus full-time on insider trading

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@mentalplex @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

Can you just answer the question without assuming bad intentions on my part?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AgnusDeitox @SMooreesq @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

I disagree and I don’t think you’ve given my view so much as a chance, you’re dismissing it out of hand.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@heroku

$ heroku run ls took almost 16 seconds to get a result. I mean, come on…

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@serialnewz @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

the tweet doesn’t mention capitalist oppression like you claimed

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@serialnewz @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i could tell it was a reference, at least to something you had heard, since you said “all over again”, just not a reference to a tweet

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@serialnewz @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

didn’t realize it was a joke
also not sure how i could have known that you were referencing another tweet without any mention of or link to such a tweet

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@serialnewz @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i’m not aware of the left or right ever claiming that bedtimes are capitalist or communist oppression

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@serialnewz @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

since you’ve realized that, and since libertarians like capitalism, how could i possibly speak of “capitalist oppression”?

twitter.com/serialnewz/sta…

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@SenorMustachio @tripencrypt @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

you’ll get your answer when you consider what right you have to your videos games

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@mentalplex @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

I can’t imagine you actually think we come out of the womb with minute to minute desires perfectly matching our needs, and the only responsibility of parents is to reach things on tall shelves.

you’re correct, i do not
but i’m not doing a bit

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@mentalplex @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i’m letting you bathe when you want to
is that neglect?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AttyErinS @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

as i have said, emergency situations are different
bathing isn’t an emergency situation

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AttyErinS @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

yea persuasion can be hard
sometimes that’s because one’s ideas aren’t that good
that doesn’t justify force, and might doesn’t make right

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Sir_Mart_Ash @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

roughly that the subject is not given an option to decline being bathed

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@cwcooper @Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

this ‘training’ you speak of isn’t just attainable through coercion
there is a peaceful alternative called ‘persuasion’

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@angryarlmom @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

yea it’d be good if you didn’t force them to

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

Connecting to a @heroku instance via $ heroku run is awfully slow.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@FakeAjebutter @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

since this comment is really directed at me: there are different degrees of abuse.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Sir_Mart_Ash @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

what?

subjecting someone to force is abuse (there are exceptions but bathing is not one)

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@ssylvan @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

you don’t need to keep saying my name, i already know you’re pissed at me

you often do not want to do what you should do for ‘your own good’. doesn’t mean somebody else should make decisions for you

freedom comes with the freedom to make mistakes

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AttyErinS @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

lol: twitter.com/dchackethal/st…

waiting until this person realizes that children can be persuaded to take baths

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@cwcooper @yesimrite @EKStewartNH @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i agree that parents have obligations toward their children
where we disagree is whether it is morally right to use force to fulfill them

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@cwcooper @Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

silly to think we need to force kids to take baths to have a ‘functioning society’

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@cwcooper @Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

not killing or maiming people should indeed be enforceable because it’s a violation of their rights (and a form of abuse, so if you’re against abuse, that same reasoning should lead you to reject force against kids)

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@ForLangley @EKStewartNH @JoGoTyRo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

no. this is where you get to say ‘ah, of course, that’s why he believes such silly things’

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@OverThinkStuff @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

forcing someone to make the bed, forcing someone take a bath, yes

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@kahloun @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

as a counterexample, i was persuaded as a child that brushing my teeth was a good idea and necessary, and then i did so happily and routinely
same for hygiene in general

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AgnusDeitox @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

that’s actually a great example of a routine yet gross violation of a child’s freedoms

is forcing you to do things you don’t want to do not abuse?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@AgnusDeitox @SMooreesq @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

‘making them’ do anything is wrong
call it something other than abuse if you want, it’s still wrong
if eating something other than sugar is such a good idea you should have no problem persuading a child of that

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@mentalplex @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

maybe so but i don’t get why ppl immediately think ‘if i don’t force my kid to bathe he will never bathe’ that just isn’t true

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

RT @ZubyMusic:
What was the silliest, least scientific ‘pandemic’ policy?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

RT @jabster42:
@StephHoover8 @ZubyMusic

Why were the police allowed to be together in a group like that?

Seems dangerous.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@SK83R @redscorpion7777

Der ist aber nicht Mitglied des Bundestages.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Sir_Mart_Ash @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

Sexual abuse isn’t the only kind of abuse

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

Do you know any toddlers?

yes

They are reflexively contrarian.

😱😱 You’re right, let’s fix those little shits!

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@pelipperkoi @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

no (and fair warning i haven’t looked into them much and only have a vague idea of what they want)

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

I have a very clear conscience about things like baths and toddlers.

you said “everything is against a toddler’s will.” meaning you think all you ever did was coerce your kids. yet you have a clear conscience.

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @JoGoTyRo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

no. washing a toddler when he has agreed to be washed isn’t against his will. playing games with a toddler when he has agreed to play isn’t against his will. comforting a toddler when he wants to be comforted isn’t against his will. and so on

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i think you know the answer is ‘yes it is abuse’
and you’re afraid of the consequences
that’s why you ‘bow out’
when in reality there is nothing to worry about

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @JoGoTyRo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

if washing is so important youll have no trouble persuading your child

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @JoGoTyRo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

it’s not just about washing someone
it’s about washing them against their will

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @JoGoTyRo @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

washing someone against their will, or doing anything against their will, can cause great harm
for one it harms the bond between parent and child
it harms the child’s autonomy
it harms the child’s rights
the list goes on

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

let me rephrase for clarity:

given that someone forces you to take a bath, is that not abuse, yes or no?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i don’t know what adl means (activities of daily living?) but i don’t think you’ve answered my question

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@JoGoTyRo @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

ok google says “cruel and violent treatment of a person […]” and “
use or treat in such a way as to cause damage or harm” that sounds right

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@EKStewartNH @Acelamerican @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

You have outstanding/unanswered questions:

twitter.com/dchackethal/st…
twitter.com/dchackethal/st…

Why answer yours if you don’t answer mine?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i told you i wasn’t gonna be able to convince you

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@yesimrite @EKStewartNH @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

if somebody physically pushed you into a bathtub right now and submerged you, you wouldn’t consider that abuse?? or some form of violation of your rights as a human being?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

yea it’s usually child educators who are the worst child abusers

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

somebody comes along who still thinks you can’t make rational decisions in your own best interest in your current situation where neither need nor want any guardian

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

i don’t think you know enough about epistemology to make that claim

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

@Acelamerican @EKStewartNH @fakeaarontweets @JoeReynolds2020 @FreeRangeKids

ok
somebody comes along who still thinks you can’t make rational decisions in your own best interest
so now he forces you to do the things he’d want
not great is it?

@dchackethal · · Show · Open on Twitter

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