@Sam_kuyp @tomhyde_ @robinhanson

I think it’s more about making a moral evaluation than to define slavery.

@mormo_music

And there can’t be other, deeper explanations for his “screaming meltdowns” other than lack of sleep and “emotional disregulation”?

@mormo_music

We’ve agreed on that (though again I’m not even sure I’d consider those instances coercion) and I repeat that the interesting question will be whether you enforce bedtimes, broccoli, those kinds of things.

@mormo_music

All I can say is: good for your kid. Means he’s got a healthy desire for freedom and independence.

@mormo_music

I’m gonna argue that anything over 3 months is plenty of time to coerce and cause ‘stubbornness’. Maybe even less. If someone is coercive with me once I’m gonna resist and then he may well view that as ‘stubbornness’ on my part and never consider that he could be wrong.

@mormo_music

How old was your first kid when you first deemed him or her to be stubborn?

@mormo_music

Couldn’t that stubbornness be a result of parents being coercive to begin with?

Stubbornness can be a result, not the cause.

They should really let you attach before and after pics to git commits.

Not in lieu of commit messages, but in addition. Picture is worth a thousand words.

@zeitonline_arb

Klassischer statistischer Fehlschluss. Sehr niedriges Niveau.

@Aristos_Revenge

Disgusting

@mormo_music

Twitter. Both first use protected tweets without following each other, then make the tweets visible.

@mormo_music

Should kids be saved from electrocution? Ofc

More interesting questions IMO: should kids be force fed broccoli? Forced to do homework? Forced to exercise? Forced not to smoke? Forced to go to bed?

~All parents respond ‘yes’ to at least some of these and it’s tragic.

@mormo_music

Given a lack of knowledge and time in an emergency, some absolute minimum of coercion may sometimes be required (but not desirable compared to voluntary alternatives). It seems we agree that heavily reducing coercion in parenting would be good overall:

twitter.com/mormo_music/st…

@mormo_music

If a scenario you describe really is a bad idea, it shouldn’t be too hard to persuade the child of that (unless the trust has been broken from previous coercion, then it gets a lot harder).

@mormo_music

It’s a bit unfair to expect an interlocutor to come up with solutions to all kinds of problems on the spot. I don’t need to show a solution to every problem for the claim that problems are soluble to be valid.

@optimysticism @NormalDenizen

Fair enough

@DontMindMyEq

“black peoples are the largest growing group of vegans”

Are you citing some specific statistic?

@optimysticism @NormalDenizen

I’m not saying not to act or not to address large errors.

@optimysticism @NormalDenizen

Right and isn’t that usually difficult and takes time?

@mormo_music

let kid go alone but follow at a distance

kid proof sockets beforehand

@optimysticism @NormalDenizen

That’s my point. Oftentimes when trying to remove evil by some form of revolution it just gets replaced with another form of evil.

Knowledge takes time to grow, it doesn’t just generate spontaneously.

@mormo_music

Easy, go with them and take winter clothes with you just in case.
In the other scenario, child proof your sockets.

@mormo_music

And I mean nasty, break-your-spirit-over-years kind of coercion, not the lemme-save-your-life-in-this-emergency-situation kind of coercion.

@mormo_music

Pulling someone away from danger is something I would hardly call coercion. But we can call it that.

It gets interesting around things like bedtimes and diets. Parents employ coercion FAR more than the kind of ‘coercion’ that is absolutely necessary as in your scenario.

@mormo_music

Aggressive coercion is initiation of coercion in an otherwise peaceful situation (as opposed to defensive coercion which is preceded by aggressive coercion and meant to counteract it).

Eg shooting someone out of the blue is aggressive coercion.
Shooting back is defensive.

@Elmar_Raguse @quarkswdr

Mir tut es jedes Mal weh.

@optimysticism @NormalDenizen

That could be achieved, for example, by letting Russia steamroll over Ukraine, which has conscription, ie slavery. But would Ukrainians be any better off?

Rewriting a word because there’s a typo in it: fine.
Rewriting a book because there’s a typo in it: bad idea.
Even if the book is littered with typos you’re almost always better off fixing the typos instead of rewriting it. twitter.com/normaldenizen/…

@mormo_music

After re-reading this thread so far, it seems to me you’ve said several things about when coercion is not only okay but required (or else parenting would be negligent, in your opinion).

When did the switch happen?

@mormo_music

So you don’t mind coercion, including violence, as long as the perpetrator has good intentions?

@mormo_music @astupple

Are you also thinking of the parents and teachers who (mostly used to but some still do) beat their children out of genuine concern for their wellbeing?

The ones who say ‘this hurts me more than it hurts you’?

@mormo_music @astupple

So, if parents ‘endorse’ the rape of their children, the associated coercion is defensive and legitimate and in the long-term interest of the child?

Surely that can’t be what you mean.

@mormo_music @astupple

Any time?

Parents never use coercion for the parents’ benefit?

And, even if true, how does ‘benefit’ mean ‘defensive’?

RT @FischerKing64:
Removal of standards at professional schools is going to increase subtle racism. If Harvard MD doesn’t mean guy had grea…

RT @MrsMThatcher:
pic.twitter.com/3ydhqQqhXu

RT @realchrisrufo:
It’s a sign of immense progress that, in the search for racism, publications like the New York Times have to invent incr…

@monitoringbias

They could make the helmets they say they need.

@mormo_music @astupple

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought by “opposed to all parental coercion” you meant all aggressive parental coercion.

@mormo_music @astupple

is another
And there are others but I don’t wanna spam too many ppl :)

@mormo_music

We agree that state coercion is bad.

@FitzClaridge is one

@mormo_music

Like, it seems to me that the reasons you give for parental coercion of kids are more or less the same reasons people give for all kinds of coercion between all kinds of people, even those kinds you’d disagree with.

@mormo_music

But if it weren’t, wouldn’t there be a parallel to parenting there?

@mormo_music

‘non-negligent governing requires willingness to coerce (e.g. conscription). this coercion will truthfully signal to citizens that they are not trusted, in this case, to decide and behave adequately. this is fine.’

The WiFi issue affects so many people, including in the latest product lineup for computers, that I’m surprised @Apple hasn’t even acknowledged it. twitter.com/silver_x86/sta…

@quarkswdr

Wenn es nur ein deutsches Wort für „lunch“ gäbe …

@mormo_music

Does that extend to matters beyond defensive coercion, in your opinion?

@optimysticism

Isn’t the Popperian argument that destruction and revolution usually lead to worse outcomes than the status quo?

@MakesMarty @robinhanson

That’s a fair point, but why aren’t Ukrainians free to leave?

@robinhanson

“Draft-subject men employed in nationally-important manufacturing, government support activities may be exempted”

Translates to: ‘my master is kind’

@jchalupa_ @robinhanson

When we last discussed this, IIRC, you claimed Ukraine was doing this for their subjects’ freedom, then I pointed out the contradiction in not letting them leave. Then you stopped discussing. Whose argument is bad?

RT @szspagna:
@robinhanson

The US has a draft in place, discriminatory on top. I as a man have to register for a draft in case it’s reinsta…

RT @TechnophobiaOrg:
PSA: The more fear ‘alignment’ non-profit leaders can whip up, the more money they can raise pic.twitter.com/C8sMqPhNfp

@Karl_Lauterbach

Haben die Kinder um diesen Schutz geboten? Nein? Ist es dann nicht eigentlich Bevormundung?

@tagesthemen @irisma8

‚Wahlen sind super, es sei denn, sie führen zum falschen Ergebnis.‘ 🤡

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

Interesting. Would men date younger and would women date older if they could?

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

So it seems to be a bit of both: close in age but also skews toward older men with younger women.

RT @sentientist:
Women on internet forums are constantly encouraging one another to escalate small or nonexistent misdeeds into existential…

RT @monitoringbias:
Question: Where are the Mexicans (our largest immigrant group by far) in all of this?

Answer: Almost nowhere to be fou…

@AlexRiv0827 @ElijahSchaffer

I don’t think that answers my question. Or are you saying you look at least as good now as you did when you were 20?

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

What statistics are you citing?

Don’t women typically claim they look for ‘emotionally mature’ men?

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

Btw it’d help legibility if you made your tweets on top of each other instead of next to each other.

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

But isn’t it true that women typically prefer to date older men?

@MichaelPSenger

Surely this time it wasn’t about superstition and witchcraft?

@Sad_Strawberry8 @algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

Those obvious reasons being?

@MyProNounIsDude @ElijahSchaffer

18 is not a prime number. But 19 is.

@JustIn07322 @ElijahSchaffer

Don’t they say that men always value beauty?

@AlexRiv0827 @ElijahSchaffer

How much would an average 50 yo have to take care of herself to look as good as an average 20 yo?

@MollyOKami @ElijahSchaffer

Early 30s is still prime for childbirth?! 🤔

@MaureenWolf1 @ElijahSchaffer

How many men do you think agree with you on that?

@algs1185 @ElijahSchaffer

What makes you think you’ll be able to find someone younger/fitter when you’re past your prime? Shouldn’t your expectations go down over time, not up?

RT @Jclearfield2:
@FischerKing64 @theistinthought

It was probably this article:
newrepublic.com/article/100566…

@AlexanderNaume2

What’s wrong with that?

@guardian

Nice ratio. Big L by @guardian

@_Islamicat

Racialist Jinja convert

RT @a_nnaschneider:
Die Zuckerwerbeverbotsfantasien der Grünen fallen bei den Kollegen von “Die Zeit” jedenfalls auf fruchtbarsten Boden. h…

@mormo_music @KoenSwinkels

Problem is, he’d love to force Americans into the meat grinder too, if he could.

RT @mtracey:
If the New York Times or anyone else thinks “liberty” needs to be “saved” in Ukraine, have they noticed Ukraine itself has imp…

RT @frantzfries:
Steve Jobs would be so pissed at the Siri team about ChatGPT

RT @monitoringbias:
Why doesn’t The Guardian ever express the same enthusiasm for reducing the non-white population of London, or the Chine…

Crypto-Fallibilism: blog.dennishackethal.com/posts/crypto-f…

RT @monitoringbias:
A city that didn’t enslave African-Americans ponders whether a payment of $5 million to each black resident (not one of…

RT @TechEmails:
pic.twitter.com/kdLqKWJ9Rk

@tomhyde_ @astupple

Yes. Good is stronger than evil.

Bostrom et al are wrong to think that AI is guaranteed to lead to destruction. But thinking it’s guaranteed not to would be the same mistake.

@astupple

Hitler was a general intelligence. Why didn’t he have doubts about annihilating humans?

‘We already oppress teenagers when it comes to smoking, so let’s also oppress them when it comes to social-media use.’ twitter.com/vivekgramaswam…

Can’t we leave it to the teens themselves, Gene? twitter.com/genesohoforum/…

RT @elonmusk:
@monitoringbias

For a very long time, US media was racist against non-white people, now they’re racist against whites & Asi…

@MasterTimBlais

Read the beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch.

@krlwlzn

Oh and you get to keep your plasmids too. Then it’s really not that hard. Starting completely from scratch on impossible should be orders of magnitude harder!

@krlwlzn

Played it many times on previous difficulties to practice. You also get to keep your weapons that way.

You learn which plasmids and which weapons to use where. For example, Enrage is good for Fontaine Fisheries where all your weapons are taken. Use security cameras. Etc.

Finished BioShock on impossible with zero deaths the other day :)

@PostAp0calyptik @monitoringbias

Couldn’t the chart be going down because fewer people are getting married while more of those few marriages end up in divorce than before?

If so, wouldn’t that be misleading?

@PostAp0calyptik @monitoringbias

Also, shouldn’t it be divorces among married people? Maybe fewer people are getting married.

@PostAp0calyptik @monitoringbias

Nice but that’s 20 years not 50.

RT @ben_a_adams:
@terrajobst

Don’t take Github contributions hottakes from someone’s GitHub looks like this? github.com/ManuelFrigerio https:…

@monitoringbias

Are you referencing a specific statistic on divorce rates?

@TCSparents

Years ago I was with friends (married couple with two teenage boys at the time) for dinner when the dad said the boys HAVE to get at least a master’s degree.

I still kick myself for not asking them if that’s what THEY wanted.

RT @MrsMThatcher:
Europe was created by history. America was created by philosophy. pic.twitter.com/dUZz2q14od

RT @RonPaul:
While economically suffering at home, we’re being plundered to finance Ukraine’s war to the tune of over $100+ BILLION so far.…

@ariespussy

Would you take never being catcalled again if it meant never getting attention from men again?